What I have found most remarkable is how well some pistols that typically fling wide groups have clustered the semiwadcutters. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. The powder charges used for .38 are forgiving. I can get away with using it as cast w/ alox. YMMV. Robert Frost. Reducing consumables (and therefore cost) that much more is definitely appealing to me. I'm looking for some recipes for 38 special for a 125 grain copper plated (like Berry's) flat point bullet using Unique, Bullseye, or W231. Jacketed bullets create a bit more wear on the rifling, but its better than trying to wire brush out a bunch of lead build up. I routinely use only two powders: Trail Boss and Titegroup. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion. 4.0 gr. Bullseye and NRA Distinguished Revolver And, oh yeah. Only the Model 60 sometimes have factory installed grips that are not worthless. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. Different colors can be used to identify different loads and since bottom of each bullet is also powder coated, there is less lead dispersed in the air at the shooting range. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Jacketed bullets are legal for DR, as long as they are 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. In fact, Hornady's handloading manual includes .357-inch bullets in the load data for the .38 Super, specifically 125-grain and 140-grain XTP bullets, along with .355-inch bullets, and their one remaining .356-inch bullet, the 125-grain HAP. If there is a search function for these forums (didn't see one) I'd be happy to use that too Go to the Alliant website and find the data for Unique and Bullseye. Traditionally, the max SAAMI pressures were: 38 S&W 14,500 I don't know what bullets you have, but Berry's recommends per their website to use hard cast data for their plated bullets. Starting being near 3gr - ish. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 The 4.0 grain load is relatively mild recoil and was accurate. This gun now wears factory synthetic grips which are decent but could use more girth behind the trigger guard. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. I never really set my sights, in a manner of speaking, on the .38 cartridge like I did other rounds. For me, the 32 H&R Mag is my 357 Mag, and the 32 S&W Long is my 38 SPL. I like the smell of Bullseye, dont mind wiping the handguns down after a range day, and the dark soot that accumulates on my support hand when shooting wheelguns in particular just reminds me to wash up. Cartridge : .38 Special (SAAMI)Bullet : .357, 125, FP Rainier Useable Case Capaci: 20.320 grain H2O = 1.319 cm Cartridge O.A.L. Forget about it. I am using this load in some .38 specials. In terms of thousands of rounds of range practice, though, that is a definite no-go in my book. Go figure. (Inceptor) Diameter: 0.357" Powder: CFE Pistol (Hodgdon) Primer: WIN WSP Case: WIN Trim Length: 1.145" C.O.L. And yes I appreciate them for a hunting gun because of their fine accuracy and find trigger pulls (older classic guns). Youd just be risking ALOT firing it in a .38 framed revolver. 4.) How does WST compare to Bullseye powder? Enough that the range Officer at my range recognized them because the muzzle blast made a distinctive cat whisker pattern at 8 and 10, and 2 and 4 o clock. The swaged bullets are soft enough that they expand even at mild velocities where a JHP or hard cast cant. My guess would be almost identical, straight wall, not high pressure, definitely. Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. Discussion: Bullseye is a faster burning powder and some people feel better suited for the .38 special. Normal, mild .38 loads work fine with lead bullets. These types of guns are not as strong as more modern solid frame revolvers. Congratulations on spelling loath right. Don't know of any bullets like that. NULLI SECUNDUS. DR loads (158gr Remington swaged LSWC over 3.6gr AA#2 in Winchester .38 Special cases) I shoot American eagle, remington factory,remington umc, and mag tech. Therefore, the conventional wisdom is that they must be loaded to a lower velocity. +P? They are low because of swaged bullets. (Patrick Sweeney photo) September 15, 2021 By Michelle Hamilton, Field Editor. The other .38 Special is a 4 Colt Diamondback. The upside of the grainage is that the small charges mean more loaded rounds per pound of powderhelpful since Bullseye can take a while to reacquire once the container is empty. 2) Ammo that would work in the Air Force's Air Crewman Colt's and Smith and Wesson revolvers that had weak alloy cylinders. If youre recoil averse (and dont have a disability of some kind), its because you havent shot it enough. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. The manufacturing process of swaged bullets requires relatively soft lead for two reasons. Midwest Supply Group. MAGTECH 38SPL 125 FMJ FLAT 50/1000 The load you use will be up to your gun. 01-10-2014, 06:49 PM #4. dverna. These two can cover the entire performance spectrum up to .38+P. Load with 38 S&W data. What sort of wildlife are you thinking would be a good application for this self-defense load? Me too! The pistol or revolver of good quality is vital. My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. I fired 3 Remington 125 SJHP 357s from a 340 and thought i had nerve damage in my hand. The 158 gr cast plain base accuracy load was 4.0 gr 231 which gave 837 Fps and 15,900 psi. is so simple. Shot placement is just as important if not more. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. Never got around to trying the T grips. The cartridge offers a great deal of zest and has thousands of possible load combinations. We've got some great loads for 158 coated and plated semi wadcutters, and we're trying something new. Reloading The .38 Special - Reload Ammo One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. In my area, Bullseye is one of the first powders to disappear from shelves, lasting about a heartbeat longer than an econo bulk box of .22 Long Rifle ammunition. Really important to have a chrono if you're going to work up loads When I first bought my chrono, I was amazed at how HOT my loads were - unnecessarily. Be careful about published sources (and doubly so about internet sources), regarding maximum loads for the 38 special. I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special. They are reliable accurate and deadly. This is an easy-shooting load that can cause some power-philes to tusk-tusk and comment. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck. A little shopping around might do better, as would casting the lead bullets. 44 Rem Mag 36,000. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. 125 grain plated flat point in 38 Special - Forums S&W M637-2 2" barrel Home About Partners Contact. Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. I have experimented with both of Hornadys 200-grain semiwadcutters in this load: the more button-nosed SWC and the longer Combat/Target (C/T) version. 38 Special 158gr. JHP Load? | Glock Talk Reloading supplies and load recipes are available everywhere. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. And it isnt my first rodeo with a J-frame. Honestly, plated bullets won't give you the level of accuracy needed for bullseye competition, even at 25 yards. That one Ill keep. 2, No. Extremely light loads for 38 Special revolver - The Firearms Forum I could knock out a pretty substantial chunk of my shooting needs with only these three loads. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 Main issue is that the .44 spl. Shoot cast and coated bullets and you can go much higher in load and velocity. Any clues for powder and starting loads???? Like both the .38 and the .44 spl. The stuff you learn shooting 20,000 reloads (on top of thousands of rounds of factory ammo) can be pretty interesting and I feel that Ive got a very good picture of what the .38 Special. Reloading for it came next and it has since become my favorite pistol cartridge. Wife handled it with no problem, those 5 Super Vel had been in the gun probably over 5 years by then, she bought it to CARRY, not to shoot, if she needed to fire it to save her life it would be fine. Choosing a bullet THAT TIME IS BETTER SPENT LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT THE REVOLVER IN THE RAPID FIRE PORTION. Most people have one general power level for their semi-autos due to the fact that the guns wont function with ammo thats not energetic enough to cycle the slide. Josh Wayner is a Michigan native, active competitor, Grand Valley State University alumni, troublemaker, and fiction author. 38 Special 17,000 This is my plink load for the kids. You gotta try the S&W M342 Airlight TI. These have a good profile- longer at the top where the middle finger rides, and shorter where the pinkie rests. 158 gr. 2.7 gr. .38 Special - CHUCKHAWKS.COM Recoil is mild enough that for many years it was the golden choice for the next introductory step for young or new shooters after rimfire. I carry 38 /357 every day have used them in real world shootings. 125 Gr. bullets in the 38 Special - The Firing Line Forums Hodgdon gives starting load of 4.0 grains and 4.4 grains MAX. Just dont shoot a rabbit with this load if you want to be able to eat any of it. I always used mixed brass because it was all I had. It has been many years since I used a Lee Loader and a wooden mallet to reload 8mm Mauser. The same volume of BE will weigh much more than than same volume of WST. I use 2.8-3.0 grains of Bullseye or AA#2 with 158 gr. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. I favor the appearance of the C/T load and find it slightly easier to grab and orient in the loading process. Rookie, back in the day when I was reloading I went through a 3 round butt L. Horton special model 24, a 4 24 and a 4 624. My more serious RN is the 358311 that drops @150 gr. As a result, Ive been able to spend far more time practicing with it rather than fussing with it. My Lyman 49th has data for 125 gr JHP and 120 gr LRN. 9mm 125 gr RN Lead Cast Bullets for Reloading - Stateline Bullets When using a 158 gr. I miss those days. JHP, 158 gr. Below, are three loaded rounds. I use CCI Snake shot for two and Buffalo Bore short Barrel 130 gr. The trigger has smoothed out over time. 4.4 gr. 38 Special 125 gr XTP - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc Since it hit the market 103 years ago, it has been a staple for most handloaders and the backbone of most accuracy loads in the popular calibers. I have some W231 that I use for my .38 super. Reloading .44 Spl. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. I dont see much conversation on these specifics but I think Its all about the size of the explosion in the chamber. Jacketed bullets are not legal for Distinguished Revolver. In several of the guns, the old standby couldnt quite duplicate the level of precision they exhibit with current production wadcutters from Black Hills or Winchester, but in each case, the load shot close to or right on the sights and nearly held the X ring. Agree Problem with the J frame S&W is the grips. I simply took mixed brass and ran em through the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP press with the bare minimum preparation. Accurate, powder-puff recoil, and serious power all in one. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. (bullseyeforum.net). I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. 1.) Bullseye 3.2gr / 763fps --> 4.2gr / 892fps (max) Unique 4.3gr / 773fps --> 5.3gr / 944fps (max) 231 3.9gr / 733fps --> 4.8gr / 896pfs (max) These are out of a 5.5 inch barrel Edited June 25, 2016 by jschweg Dr. Phil Classifieds 712 Upload or insert images from URL. Very forgiving with a straight wall case, and tons of bullet variety. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - 5.0 gr unique with berry's 125gr = .38 Special squibs (solved ! I keep it under my seat in case I get an unwanted intruder and I cant get to my IWB semi auto. ( customer reviews) $ 10.69 - $ 246.00. Classic loads are economical. 38 special load question - Bullseye Forum I did start out fawning over all of the tactical gear, but once I had that covered my tastes matured I think to love the wood and steel guns. I have often thought about reloading .357 brass to .38 special velocities to get around that, but have just never decided to actually do it. 38 Special Loadings | Ruger Forum I will start ouy at the minimum velocity then. Have a Tritium sight and laser on it to boot. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. The big medicine was delivered by a 1911, but S&W K frames (favorites were Models 12 & 64) took care of everything else. I'm asking the above questions because I don't want to run too hot of a load, but wasn't sure if it was ok to drop down below 2.8 as far as 2.5. 38 Special, all bullet weights Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source 110gr JHP! 7.8 gr Blue Dot 1,170 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr Pressure: 15,700 4.5 gr Bullseye 1,085 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 4.1 gr Pressure: 14,900 Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). And this is a guy who normally trusted nothing but a 45 acp. .38 Special +P (Alliant Reloaders Guide) - Load Data Yeah no. Any hotter and we get into a recoil issue. I bought a Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull last year ahead of a hunt up in Wyoming. Others Have reported some success but few have more than one or two loads. In a 1909 vintage Smith & Wesson target .38, the 2.7-grain load cut a nearly one-inch cluster, showing that classics go well together. Always make sure your lead bullets have been sized and lubricated. The Charter Arms .44 models are potential CCWs, but are too light to properly handle the .44 spl. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. Many people tend to poo-poo .38 Special (standard pressure) for self-defense as being somehow underpowered. The 919 case is tapered and therefore wider at the base than the .38 special is. I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. An early Les Baer .45 knotted a group of the lead SWCs into a tight 1.3-inch group, while an M&P .45 did 1.25 inches. But still nothing under 3.5". Thank you. I did find a 145 grain Lead HP with a rounded ogive (like the last NyClad) on Gunbroker that opens really well if you get above 800 fps. In a day you can make over 100,000 bullets. Berry's bullets and lee chart and 357 load - ArizonaGunOwners.com Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. Power Pistols works well in short auto cartridges and higher pressure cartridges but no so well with a 158 grain bullets in 38 Special. Replaced w/ Altamont laminated wood, and later w/ open- back Pachmayrs- the less-pronounced finger grooves fit me better. And Vihtavouris N320 and N321 fall in this range for burning times. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. ), I very much wanted to start with some tried-and-true Bullseye loads, but it took an epic scavenger hunt across many months to find a canister of the elusive classic. My personal loads for practice replicate my carry. Based on this Id load some at 3.3 and 3.5 and see what you get, but Id never exceed 3.8 ever. No matter where you look, the first mention in classic loads for the .38 Special is a 148-grain wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. The least is usually supplied as a large cylindrical billet weighing several hundred pounds. Which left me with the last two. Easy to reload and it started my reloading experience. of Bullseye with Lee's 125gr RN mold in a 38 special with so-so accuracy. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges youd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. Loading 38 special for best accuracy - Revolver Forum - Brian Enos's 110gr JHP! In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). I make a habit of counting the number of reloads I make by keeping a tally of primer and bullet boxes. "Berry's Superior Plated Bullets are the finest bonded copper-jacketed bullets available today.." ?. But I found 2.4 and 2.7 interesting at 25 yards off the sandbags. * All PLUS P loads for guns designed for it (20,000 PSI), (Cowboy loads shot in 7 1/2 bbl.revolver no need to reduce), ALL THESE LOADS ARE PLUS P, SPECIAL HOT 21,000 PSI. Is it more bulky? Thank you for the article. What overal length of the cartridge? My Hornady book says for 158 gr L-SWC, Unique powder, CCI magnum primer the minimum listed (not sure if that's absolute minimum) is 4.3 and maximum is 4.7. He loves this gun and keeps it in reach 24/7. I only wish the brass was more available locally. I use 3 gr. I am aware of the plated bullet limitations on BE accuracy and am more interested in them for their "plinkability". 38 Special Load Data.. - Intoku.net - YUMPU I dont own anything in .38 special yet, but I have plans to buy a .357 magnum revolver in near future, so I already reloaded couple thousands of rounds in .38 and .357. Dont get me wrong: I think the Smith and Wesson Model 642 Airweight revolver is an outstanding self-defense (concealed carry) revolver and you wont feel/care about how snappy/unpleasant the recoil may be in a real self-defense event. As a young man, I came into a couple of cases of hand-me-down factory mid-range wadcutters. I agree with your .38 Special assessment points for the very same reasons. Groups with these loads ranged from 1.25 inches to just under two inches at 25 yards across a handful of pistols. I'm new to reloading, starting off with a single stage Lee press reloading .38 special and .357 magnum with Lee's 4 die carbide set. I dont mind it at all, though others do and look to similar performing powders that address these things. (For those who would. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 But I think I was still loading the cases from that first box when I quit loading 18 years later! Some use powders dispersed in liquids, some use electrostatic guns to spray dry powder on their bullets. I have done it with 38 special and 44 Mag, only to have a lead coated bore that looked like a rusty old drain pipe. RN, 160 gr. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Their biggest use is in making screws and small bolts. Where many shooters quickly tire of even standard-pressure .38 in the little five-shooters, the wadcutter invites cylinder after cylinder of practice. Great to get the Mrs out there! Good job on you! I dont miss lubing casescarbide is king! IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. are you loading .38 special brass, or .357 magnum brass? In 38/357 they don't list 105 gr bullets, but the do list 90's and 125's. Easy enough to extrapolate for a 105 grain . And I still think a 158 at 600 beats hell out of a 22 magnum of any stripe. You are spot on about Trail Boss, that stuff is magical with cast reloads. The Model 19 is fine with .38s but mildly uncomfortable with .357s. I love a nice, full-size .357 Magnum on the range because it is so easy to train new shooters on. With all the loads available, you can surely find one within recoil tolerance. Maybe its just me, but having that tiny bit of extra length and weight in the cylinder that I was never going to use just kinda bothered me. Hehe, back before Nick skimmed down. It also shows that the loads were established using a 6" barrel, so regardless of what any published data shows, the chances of ever finding published data for the exact projectile and barrel length you are using, as well as the exact conditions you will be shooting in, would be nearly impossible. This load chugs downrange at 750 feet each second and functions standard recoil springs with no issue. Current J frame factory grips have similar features and are made of a stiffer compound. Lucky me. 38 Special Pet Loads - 24hourcampfire Two years into my second century a Colt MK IV Series 80 LTWT Commander 45 ACP still delivers the big medicine, but I have become enthralled with a new wheel gun- a Charter Arms Professional 32 H&R Magnum. No benchrest, nothing but two shakey hands holding the pistol. 1.455 in. I'd imagine I'm not the first person to use this load, but I have found it is a very sooty/smokey load. I picked some up from my local Scheels yesterday. At belly button range, very nasty load. 6.) Note the dark band of lube on the 3 lead bullets. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers. That revolver is aluminum and cannot handle the pressure of 9MM. The 9mm Bullseye load is a good stand-in for either training or match ammo, with the velocity putting the power factor comfortably over the minimum for action sports without too much extra oomph. There seems to be a dearth of information using WST powder for the 38 Spl cartridge. This wire is then fed into a machine called a cold header. Caveat: I have decided that I want to be prepared for threat scenarios that include stopping a terrorist or spree-killer (the odds of which I fully recognize is statistically zero). During my first half century on this planet, my caliber of choice for defense was 45 ACP- but for everything else it was always 38 SPL. Send the cylinder out to get cut for moon clips and adapted to 9mm, so you can shoot both 38/357/9mm and use all on moon clips. accuracy. Pasted as rich text. The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. Not all guns are created equal. Most of these are at the upper end. Reading the "WARNING" on the site, it states to not exceed the loads published and to start 10% below the loads shown and work up from there. Anything goes with bullets. My son asked if I wanted him to help, then fired one shot and handed it back. My Dad has advanced arthritis and could not longer easily work his auto loaders. I realized that I had hit a very special count for a very special cartridge: 20,000 rounds of .38 Special. The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets. If you are new to reloading. Your email address will not be published. Shot many thousands of my bullseye powder reloads with it. The bullets are seated flush in the case. Thanks for the excellent article, Josh! Now theres an old memory. You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. head I use 3.2gr. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. And.those Hornady 158 HPs are easy to reload but I have never had one open up in a varmint of any sort. YOU WOULD BE WASTING YOUR TIME TRIMMING THE BRASS. The flyers tend to be severe. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). RN, 158 gr. When I finally got my hands on a pound of Bullseye, I naturally started with some of these loads. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Generally, I'm looking for a load that produces accuracy from approx. I just bought a Lyman mold 160 round nose with a crimp groove. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. 594/600 at the real distances of 24 rnds at 50 yds, 24 rnds at 25 yes, and 12 rnds at 7.5 yds. I load my own, 130 gr RNFP using Win 231 powder a little over the mid point in the published load data. WITH THE SWAGED BULLETS REDDING SELLS A PROFILE CRIMP DIE. She ran two cylinders of 100 grain wad cutters and gave it back to me. 38 spl.s. Red Dot work fine for most 38 Special loads. Thanks for the guidance and suggestions. Designed in 1898, the .38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge went on . (Note H110 & W296 are the same as of 2008 as is HP-38 & W231), (IMR 4227 is same as H-4227 if made in Australia), * Blackhorn 209 is a black powder substitute with smokeless like qualities. I'd rather shoot my .45 then. The jump straight to relatively hot GI hardball challenged many students, and failure to meet standards meant being dropped from the course. That little 9 oz. It is also one of the most pleasurable loads a shooter can touch off. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to.
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